4/25/12 - BREAKING NEWS - GIFTING IS BACK UP !
...and the fallout from the abuse of it is falling everywhere, it seems. from what we're seeing, some sheep were hung for goats, some goats got overlooked and are still merrily at large, and in general it's a mess... surprising no one, management surely included.
sadly, until there is time to go over in detail who did what when with whom, this is bound to be the case - what we will be waiting to see is how the "misses" - which were inevitable - are handled over time. this is probably one of the reasons the affected members were put on indefinite suspension rather than banned outright, it leaves the door open to correcting mistakes in both directions.
one thing that ought to be borne in mind is that one of the things influencing and motivating the present action was the previous justified indignation on the part of many members that others had profited unfairly at the expense of honest folks. there is no such thing as a perfect answer, or one that pleases everyone - the real tale will be told over time, when we see the actions taken with regard to those who may have been targeted unfairly, or guilty parties that may have been initially overlooked.
in order to further the discussion of this, and hopefully facilitate resolution of the problems involved, i have created a satellite blog tasked to this issue accessible HERE.
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4/20/12 ...i have just been informed that a new set of rules have been posted...and the reviews here (i haven't read the post yet myself, will in a moment) sound ominous.
you can access the link to them HERE
once i have looked them over i will probably augment this post...and maybe tweak a few ears elsewhere.
(ED) well. don't see all that much difference from Rivet's iron fist...or any lessening of the semi-arbitrary "in our judgement" wiggle room entitling them to knock out pretty much anything - or anyone - someone in authority happens to dislike. very disappointing - and NOT the way to rebuild trust in or grow the site, i'm afraid.
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4/21/12 : just received input regarding the Rules updating process, courtesy of our Comment section (thank you, Kaylina), that indicates that the present Announcement is a pro tem solution until our New Foo Crew has time to actually sit down, evaluate them, and create a system that is truly theirs. as with the "old" Rules left in place until now, they are apparently a placeholder to permit some guidelines to remain in place until new ones can be generated. (cautious optimism returns...)
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4/21/12 : all right - time to get back to work. i have roughed out something to email to management when the consensus seems to feel it is ready - please go HERE, read it through,and append a BRIEF pertinent comment and whatever name you choose to go by.
absolutely NO "anonymous" for this. use the "name/url" mode under Reply As (with any URL you like, including the Foop if it will let you) - if you care enough to post, the tiny amount of extra time it takes to do that ought not to be a dealbreaker. Nor do you have to use your "real" name, Foo or otherwise - just something to identify yourself as an individual - thanks!
one post per person, please - if you want to discuss it, i request you do it here on the Foop. Also, if you have something you feel should be added to the body of the text, as opposed to going in the Comments, let me know here or via email and we'll work together on it.
thanks - and all who love the site, join me in praying that we can do some good with this.
About Me
- GOLD RUSH
- Tabby Road, New Furrsey, Foo S. A.
- i am a seven-year-old virtual Cream Persian FooCat (born on Little Christmas, 1/5/10), the mascot and spokesfurson for FooBA4U, the FooPets members' cooperative service site.
it is interesting because I just witnessed a public reprimand on two adults because they were having a little laugh, no names mentioned, as a recent occurrence
ReplyDeleteI complained to support and requested that flogging be done in "private" and the response (although very nicely worded and polite) was that they believe the public reprimand gives parents the confidence that the site is being monitored
that's a terrible reason to keep the drama going IMO
Well the can of worms was opened when they lowered the age limit I think. That is why I have always wanted a separate Foo for kids that had no connection to the main Forums or message walls or meebo at all. Then they can monitor them til they are blue in the face and meet the federal requirements.
DeleteSo back to square one folks, There will be no fun in Fooville - go off line to Facebook and the many private groups that are springing up and doing just fine. Feed your pets and get out of Dodge before sundown. Sounds like the 60s. I wonder when they will develop virtual cattle prods to keep us in line? What happened to the good humor and the banter that we had established just days ago? Was our request to give shorti a rest such a big concession that now we have to pay with this passive aggressive assault? There is a fine line between sincere good customer service and jaw clenched fake smiles and happy faces.
What a darn shame. We had come so far and now it seems things are going all to heck in a hand basket.
I've seen no new rules at all. Just the same ones as before just under current staff. I've never really had a problem following them except for a few minor slip ups that left me quickly correcting myself for making such a rookie mistake.
DeleteI've seen that exchange. Personally they had it coming to them. I know that I wouldn't want her doing that to me and it makes sense if one is pushed they tend to bite back. If they were smart they would have kept it off site where it belongs. I know that I don't want my past thrown out there so I won't be engaging in trashing her. The constant taking of digs at someone has left me dismayed that people that I know behave in this manner. Requests for her to step down? What I saw was outright demands and in the nastiest ways possible. Everyone got what they wanted and now everyone is angry and bitter that it wasn't on your terms. I never was friends with the woman but I don't hate her either and from the looks of it this was something that she had in the works for some time now and the anger seems to be because your thunder was stolen. I saw numerous comments about letting the past go and fresh slates. Seems to me that the comments about that only apply to the ones doing the bashing and not to her. How is that fair?
Personally I'm leaving her alone to start fresh as she deserves since from what I've seen she's done nothing to warrant the behavior that is being passed in messages on Foo. I'm going to keep my mouth shut on Foo about her lest she bites back with my dirty laundry and I would give the warning for others to follow suit. It seems that she is showing restraint in doing so already. Why abuse that? Famous last words are " Let's poke it with a stick and see what happens". Those are the ones that end up featured on the show World's Dumbest.
Well that wasn't really my point. My point was that public flogging of anybody is never good. If folks need to get a reminder about playing nicely the best way to get their cooperation is in a private manner. I think you brought up some peripheral point.
DeleteTo your exact point, I point to the double standard that she is being forced to play by. She was publicly flogged in a very nasty manner even with claims of wishes to literally run her over with a lawnmower. Publicly flog a member(which is expressly forbidden) and the wrong doers should be warned in public in all fairness. Seems fair to me.
Deletewell interesting cause that was not the conversation i was referring to
Deleteand my whole point was to spread peace not more drama or do an eye for an eye
DeleteWhat on earth are you people referring to? I am assuming that we have more than one anonymous here LOL... It does not appear that you are talking about the newly-posted old rules, which are the subject of this blog item.
DeleteIf someone is being publicly bashed on foo forums or messages, then that should surely be stopped; I believe that is covered in the rules. If someone is starting anew, then most certainly old baggage should not be forced to accompany them.
(sigh) i really am getting VERY dizzy here...i can piece out that one unidentified is talking about some kind of Forum exchange concerning shorti - whether it is/was teasing or bashing depends on perspective, i suppose, but as the whole thing is at best old news, it seems unecessary and pointless, especially in public - and another refers to some other Forum exchange involving others and another subject, and it looks like both were shut down...but that about ALL i can follow.
Deleteguys - you can use any alias of your choice by selecting "name/url" in the Reply As box below : and i don't think it gives a rat butt WHAT URL you post. My suggestion would be to use one that relates to whatever you're talking about at the time, but it doesn't matter - just please, PLEASE tag yourselves with SOMETHING, okay?
this is getting ridiculous. under present circumstances i have the power to raise billy hell if anyone posting here is molested on Foo, and will not be shy about doing so - nor is that possibility mentioned in the Rules/ToS any longer to the best of my knowledge. nor do i ask you to use any "real" name...just A name. any name. at this point, for all i know they are all one person having a lovely chat with themselves.
I wish that they would clearly state actions and their consequences.
ReplyDelete1)If you do "X" you will be "Y", or, more specifically:
2)If you bump an old thread you will receive "X" number of warnings and then whatever disciplinary action
or, on a much more serious topic-
3)If you sexually harass another player you will be suspended on the first offence and then banned on the second or whatever or banned outright.
Clear actions, clear rules and clear consequences make for a much better experience for everyone and we know that we are all being judged and treated as equally as possible. That list of rules is about as clear as mud as it stands now and if I don't see much clarity in it how can we expect kids to find any? Ugh! I'm frustrated! I guess it's really fortunate that I play by the rules and always drive the speed limit just by nature! ;)
The more it changes the more it stays the same :(
ReplyDeleteWell, there goes my desire to renew my membership. The drama and garbage around there never seems to stop, yeah? Ugh.....totally sad.
ReplyDeleteI think that it was unwise of Foo to post the same old rules, even if re-worded slightly by Parrotlady. Everyone was hoping for great things from the new owners, and they were doing so well -- communicating with us, promising that the gifting problem is only temporary, putting FDs on the wheel, and of course re-activating Kevin's account. So this re-posting of the old, draconian rules was not a clever move.
ReplyDeleteAmen Carrie- I felt like a 2 year old again. It was so many strides forward but within hours of the announcement coming out we were thrown back two bloody years. They let the mess in the forums get to them once again. It seems they can't help but pull out the hammer when things get uncomfortable. That has been our main concern all along.
DeleteThis time around they had a lot to prove. They messed up badly last time around and I expected them to prove to me that they were going to handle things in a more mature manner. This is not the way. It is old school. And it reeks of paranoia and fear. And dishonesty.
The best code in the word will never be any good if your forums and your representatives are beating the crap out of your base customers and scaring all your potential new customers away in droves. When will you understand that there are hundreds maybe thousands of people out there waiting to hear what you are doing now? And there are a lot of them that want you to fail. So far you have fallen right into their trap.
So I suggest you scrap your forums and start all over. I would suggest for now contracting with a small moderator for the the forums and for the time being letting all of the a's take a break. I mean ALL. Every last one of them is burned out to ta cinder. Whether they know it or not. Even the helpful non a's. This way there cant be any backwash to you or any other member. It is clean and it is fair. Let them go back to the game and just rest. No stress or emotional attachments or opportunity to play favorites or bully. Yes is costs money but frankly at the rate you are going you won't have any thing left anyway but trolls and troublemakers.
And it allows you to get Foo fixed so you can build your base and get more customers and we can stop this endless bickering and power playing juvenile ridiculous game of whose got the stick and who is going to get beaten today. I am sick to death of this. And I am sick to death of grown adults like the new owners allowing them to constantly do it. That avoidance behavior got them in this mess to begin with.
If they do not grow up and make some drastic adult changes this whole dream is a waste of their money and time. And the last word will be "I told you not to trust Dr Ron". When it was not Dr Ron as all it was the people who used his company to have snit fits and ego trips and play their own game of whack a Foo.
The old Foo structure can't remain the same and survive. But if you make some smart changes you could have a gold mine and more than you ever dreamed. Stop thinking that things have to stay the same. Change is scary but in this case if there is no dramatic change I do not see a happy future for Foo.
AnonNotHeardFrom, I totally agree; bravo. I cannot add anything but applause to this. "Every last one of them is burned out to ta cinder." YES oh my yes. "And it allows you to get Foo fixed so you can build your base and get more customers and we can stop this endless bickering and power playing juvenile ridiculous game" Yes yes yes... We are all weary and wind-tossed.
Deletefor the a's to be stuck upholding and defending Rivet's constantly constricting policies must have been a nightmare indeed, as they were obliged to stand behind things that they themselves most likely abhorred...nor are the Forums their only function, they are active on the site proper in various capacities.
Deletewhether or not this excellent suggestion is implemented, it might not be a bad idea to task specific a's to specific tasks - Forum Mods, new member assistance (though a member mentoring program would be nice, too), and general advisor/supevisors.
i seriously doubt ParrotLady had any part in the wording/rewording, doubtless she was just the sacrificial lamb (er, messenger) used to present them. Yes, they need at the least a great deal more clarification - and simplification - whether they wind up being modified or stand as is.
ReplyDeletefrom what i'm seeing, the elephant in the room from management's point of view is the fact that they are STILL trying to retrofit what is essentially an adult site to be suitable for small children. this effort defeated Rivet and in the long run will defeat them as well, as far as i'm concerned.
i've looked around a LOT - Foo is not in the running to successfully compete in the youth market, even if it were free, as the popular children's sites are - nor will it ever put the site on a sound financial footing, which is necessary if it's goung to survive. this is leaving aside all the reasons from the members' point of view...from MANAGEMENT'S, it's a no-win.
YES, first and foremost we need a separate site division for youngsters. (anyone under 15 in my book, though the watermark seems to be 13 for whatever reason.) this, and a number of other things, will be addressed shortly in a separate (for space) blog that i will post an open link for in the post above, which will be submitted to management via email.
okay, it's done and up in the post above. time to fish or cut bait, people, this may well be the last hurrah, one way or the other.
ReplyDelete(by the way, in the course of wrestling with the new blogging format Google gifted me with, unasked and unwanted (grumble...took me half the morning to figure out how to do what i already knew how to do perfectly well before), i accidentally wound up with stats and noticed that the Foop has had over 22,000 visitors.
thanks, guys - not too shabby for a little private newletter that was never meant to really amount to much more than something fun for the FooPet membership.)
I shall put my thinking cap on and contribute in the morning; it is currently eveningtide here and I am on a tiny Notebook that I can hardly see things on let alone type LOL... Thank you for doing this for us dear soul, you are very appreciated. And your site is a home from home for many of us xxx
DeleteUhm.... okay I must be really stupid but a lot of points in that e-mail do not even reflect on what has been discussed on this blog. Or is it just me? If I pay, I do want to have benefits, other than just "have an account" thank you very much!
ReplyDeleteit's not meant to be an extract of the Foop per se, but a means to start cutting the Gordian Knot that the site is becoming. nor does it prevent anyone from using a subscription system with X benefits - it simply requests additional alternatives for those who may be just as happy without them, as long as they are onsite and able to take care of their pets...and maybe get foodollars when THEY decide (or can afford to), as opposed to when their subscription issues them.
Deleteplus, it's not going anywhere until a LOT more input comes in - and if someone has a better idea that i have up, or a refinement that improves them, i will add it in a heartbeat. if i wanted to speak only for myself, i could have just sent it as is. this is meant to be a group endeavor, designed to address the most immediate of the larger issues i see facing the site : at the moment, policy and finance.
I really doubt that people are opposed to getting daily allowance. IMO when I pay for something I want it to be beneficial for me. For example, I am also a member of Howrse and they also have a subscription option (Pegasus account ), which comes with many different benefits, which actually make the players want to pay and help them to get ahead in the game. As for now, all that foo offers is Insta-care all....and that alone and some FD extra is not enough for me to want to spent extra money, to upgrade to ClubFoo+.
DeleteWell to be honest, I am not sure how to contribute there, since it is already well-thought-out, but I will try.
DeleteYou seem to me to have the large issue of finance basically covered. I would like to add the possibility of a "free" account which is paid for, or at least partially so, via advertising. An online game of this nature with no free-to-player element makes no sense.
I too think that the site should return to Adult-only state, and that younger players should be given a "Foopets Lite" version. I think that the current "adult dashboard" system is very inadequate and that kids should have their own game and forum which can be monitored properly. I think you have that covered.
As regards the large issue of the forum and the unpaid staff who are meant to keep watch on players, look on this board, above, at AnonNotHeardFrom's contribution. I personally think that she or he has those covered. Kaylina, regardless of why or by whom those rules were posted, it was an unwise move; the new owners had already stated that the old rules would be in place until new rules could be created. The posting by PL made it seem that these WERE the new rules. As AnonNotHeardFrom says, "Every last one of them is burned out to a cinder. Whether they know it or not." We need a completely new system with new rules, and Foo needs to change the uneasy retrofit of young players into an adult game. I believe that this could be done fairly quickly and at minimal cost, if they are willing to "go for it".
My main thoughts apart from those two (or three, depending how you look at it) major ones have to do with the game itself and bringing back some of what the actual game used to be before the Rivet draconian measures were put in place. What it used to be was a pet-care game with the focus on friendly discussions and rivalry regarding, mostly, care of pets and the creation of scenes for them -- The Village forum, for instance, was an important place to ask for real help with care. Removing the FooGem cap and re-allowing the fostering of non-friended accounts would please many older players. I do not know how much major coding change would be needed to bring the scene creation back to the profile page tabs, but I do think that it would reduce the load on the servers and would appease customers.
from what i've seen, we had advertising at one point and there were issues with it...though i don't know why it couldn't be specialized to, say, pet care products. and one of the unmentioned revenue ideas involves getting product endorsements - and the resultant income from those companies - back on the site, not just from Purina and Bayer (Frontline), but branching out to offer a selection of food brands and types, meds, and possibly even toys etc. for the Foomart.
Deletewe also long for the return of unrestricted fostering - and member sales - but figured we ought to start with the Big Picture and work from there.
(Karlia, just saw your response above - i'm still getting used to comments popping up out of sequence as replies, bear with me)
Deleteyes, for those who can afford them, i'm sure the tender perks matter...but i have 15 accounts sitting dormant, and if i had a way to reopen them for a minimal amount (say $10 per year) with NO perks or benefits other than simple access, i'd go for it like a shot. so would many others (not "speculation" - i've spoken to them and if nothing else am praying for a gift subscriptions option to help them get back on Foo).
until the site is once more financially stable, they HAVE to charge SOMETHING - i'm trying to find ways to get people back onsite without beggaring them OR FooPets. and again, all the suggestions are for ADDITIONS to the existing options, not replacements.
I am wondering if it might be possible to offer a one pet option for a small annual fee. It could be very simple. Basic pet care. And it could be used by parents or grandparents to teach small kids how to care for pets and have fun together. I am thinking a very small fee and very basic options at first. And bring back the earning capacity as well as the care requirements. I have always thought FooPets could be a wonderful learning tool. And that it could lead to future members.
DeleteI have friends who started this way, They joined with one free pet to teach their children or grandchildren how to care for pets and got hooked themselves.
And I also think the responsibilities and intricate nature of breeding was wasted on the younger members. I am sorry but I saw some horrendous decisions made. I would shudder to think that they were repeated in real like. So I would do away with the free Litter license. I have tons of them. If you are going to offer a realistic pet I think it is a responsible thing to do to teach responsible pet ownership as well. Otherwise you are perpetuating a horrible standard in real life. And many of us are working very hard to change things there. Only to come to FooPets to be bombarded with puppy mill mentality and starving and abandoned pets. It is torture for a dedicated animal rescuer.
Which brings me to another thing. There used to be a newsletter. It was rudimentary foo information. Why not have a real newsletter that combines Foo news and real tips and information about pets care? Couldn't it get sponsorship?
Ok I am just talking off the top of my head here. But I have long thought that Foo had endless possibilities. Both to make some serious money and to do some serious good in education and public service.
that perfectly describes what we are requesting as a children's satellite site, allowing youngsters to learn about pets and pet care while gradually being prepared to "graduate" to FooPets proper when they are old enough to function there. again, people, please look over the open letter clickable at the foot of the above post, and append comments/signatures.
Deletein re pet care on and offsite, interestingly enough, prior to the link ban Nuggets From Gold Rush, a feature on our profile at FooBA4U, did just that - i'll see if i can get it back up, and at least available here in the Foop if i'm asked not to have it open on the profile.
My apologies for my lack of brevity over there on that page -- I think I misunderstood what was required heh... Blame increasing senility please. Also I was in rather a rush. If you want to delete my "brief" comment there, I would be happy to just leave a signature of agreement.
DeleteI see there has been quite a stushie while I was busy -- I am rather surprised at some of the people who have disappeared... as someone here said, we never really know people fully, do we, but it does seem a little unwise if the powers that be are not allowing some kind of appeal or explanation.
I am glad to see gifting back, anyway.
Carrie, brevity does not seem to be the tendency there right now (lol), i wouldn't worry. thank you for your much appreciated support and love of the site.
DeleteHmmmm well I wasn't expecting to read what I've read here today. Anon Apr 20, 2012 04:28 PM (no other way to define you other then the time you posted) I'm impressed. Nough said.
ReplyDeleteI posted a reply to someone the other day that I feel belongs on this subject here, since it is the same subject.
"idk I think it is still temporary till The "New" Owners work through everything. PL is doing her best to make order of what we know to be the current rules and until the Fa's are told otherwise that is the course of action. I know they have plans for change once they fix the glitches. With smaller servers it makes a huge issue with all the site, so tweaking is the most I see them being able to do for now and there is a lot to do in all area's of foo. I hope they are able to add another server soon, that would I think, fix most the issues.
I'm almost positive there is going to be changes as soon as they have the time to do them, remember there is only 4 people and PL working on site right now as far as we were told. That is nothing compared to the how many before to keep the site going??
Time will tell."
Just quoting myself from yesterday...
I think what everyone needs to remember is PL is trying to give some kind of guidance on the site till the new owners have time to determine what they feel will be the rules going forward. I was told in support recently to expect changes and new things. That they want to make the players happy and change things from the old. So with that said patience is a virtue. When they have the time to make "new" rules and govern over the site better, they will inform the Fa's to that change. Till then all they can do is enforce the old rules...as already stated they have a very small staff and can only do some much at a time.
My two cents.
Karlia: Love your idea's from the other page, we think a lot alike.
In fact I love most of the idea's.
Thanks for that information and thoughts. give us all something to ponder over. :)
DeleteAnytime *smiles*
Deleteexcellent news - thank you! though they might have let PL mention that these "new" rules were pro tem, a more in-depth revision would be more in character with the other actions we've seen so far, and lord knows they must still be up to their elbows in debugging - not to mention trying to puzzle out how gifting was corrupted.
DeleteWell like I said I don't think it will stay that way....only time will tell from what I've heard in support myself.
DeleteI know I'm almost positive once they figure it out they will reverse it, it doesn't make sense if they don't. Unless they plan on changing the value of fd's to match, ie. $200 real dollars for $200,000 fd's etc. Which that will mean the people who exploited the glitch will get off scott free to believe they can do more of the same next time they come across a similar situation. So my hope is that the monies will be returned and the cheaters in this case will get some kind of punishment. Like a well deserved suspension. I didn't believe that about the art glitch, to many I think didn't know it was wrong. However this time, every one of them knew what they were doing and why.
My thoughts...
as long as it doesn't turn into a witch hunt, i agree that those who exploit an obvious glitch to excess should at the very least be docked their ill-gotten gains (which should not be difficult to check via ledger history)...in the case of the gifting hack, it's a clearcut case, but a glitch is a sticky situation, as it's not "cheating" in the classic sense - unethical rather than illegal per se.
Deletebetween the various glitches and the glut via CF+, foodollars have already lost a great deal of value - the only thought i've been able to come up with on that is to create a new form of "cash" site tender and allow people to rollover their FD assets to that form in the amount that they had immediately prior to the Unicorn glitch...and even if that's possible, it will take a horrendous amount of planning and coding - not really realistic.
it might not be a bad idea in the long run to segment shops by tender, also, with some items available in one form and some in another, and no more "crossover", as there is no longer anyone onsite who does NOT have FDs anymore.
I'm talking about the people that exploited for $1000+ FD's, anything under that is just a mistake. It is the people that sent the $900 Fairy (for example) multiple times getting $450 for each one. The cheaters would also be the ones that sold them back to the foomart.
DeleteAs for the roll over to another tender. The've done it in the past, they turned "bones" into FD's, so they were able to easily do it when they turned GoPokey into FooPets. Also it is the same people that did it the first time. So in all honesty it is very doable.
I know that before this latest glitch with the gifting I had a large sum of saved FD's, they now are worth nothing. Thousands of FD's that in the current economy probably wouldn't get me a LPGSD if I wanted another one. Where as before, if I had offered it all up to someone probably would have gotten me a male calico. To me that is truly sad, cause members with less then me have no chance to get dream pets unless some member that isn't greedy offers them one.
fortunately there are still such people onsite - for every profiteer there is at least one kind and honest soul. mmm...the time periods for the glitch snitches are fairly well delineated - perhaps a code snippet could be devised that would scan ledger records and tag those with multiple transactions matching the criteria?
ReplyDeletethe problem with a tender change across the board would be (a) conversion rate - as even without the scammed FDs the site was saturated and the curency devalued, and (b) if they are unable to confiscate the ill-gotten gains, fixing redeemable amounts that let fair players get their money's worth while barring conversion of the falsely-obtained excess.
I'm happy to know I was right, there was no way they could let the gifting glitch go unpunished and unfixed!!
ReplyDelete"FooPets
Hi FooPets Members!
We wanted to let you know in case you have not heard about a big event that has happened here at FooPets. There were some users who took advantage of a gifting glitch a while back, which resulted in us turning off gifting. That being said, we have suspending indefinitely 28 members who used this to cheat and gift thousands of items to their other accounts or their friends. Not only did these accounts profit with thousands of FooDollars but it also threw off the FooEconomy because of the high-end prices that you saw in FooPet sales. Some of them were the same users who took advantage of the unicorn room. We take cheating very seriously here at FooPets and we want you to know that we have taken steps to fix this for our other members who are playing fairly. Some of these users will return, however they will have to start new with new accounts and will not get their pets or FooDollars returned to them.
FooPets takes cheating very seriously, if you have questions about the rules please see your FooAmbassadors and or visit support.foopets.com.
In addition to profiting off of this glitch, it also bogged our servers down. This caused quite a mess for us behind the scenes in FooSupport while we were working hard to fix existing glitches for our members, we unfortunately had to stop and address this immediately. Please know we are not out to get anyone, we simply care about the well being of the FooEconomy and our members who have played fairly. Thank you for your patience during this time, and thank you for playing fairly and making this community everything we are hoping it will continue to be and more!
Again, thank you for playing!
FooPets Game Services"
And because they had to fix that, it sounds like that is the reason for the increased loading issues...also it stopped them from working on things we want fixed...which sucks that them exploiting not only threw our economy into a tailspin but also cost us more time without a fully functioning site. Ugh but at least it is done...
Anyone notice who went missing??
( didn't look...if it was someone i knew, i'm not sure if i really want to find out...)
ReplyDeletesounds like a very fair solution, and i'm proud of them for handling it this way.
one question, though..."not get their pets returned" - what happened to their pets? i sincerely hope that they haven't been consigned to limbo as are the pets of deleted accounts (unless someone had the foresight to widgetize them).
There's all kinds of buzz around, especially on Facebook, that people who reported the glitch and people who traded unknowingly with the scammers have also been punished. Is there any way to confirm this or is it just so much hot air from people who don't want to take their medicine? I'd love to know that innocent folks weren't thrown out with the bath water. Sorry to mix my metaphors in such an ugly way. lol!
ReplyDeletesomeone on my friend list is now a member not found, a black star. I did not know her enough to say if I am surprised or not. Too bad for the pets...
ReplyDeleteMusicNote is missing, Cherie, Manicpanic, Kimminess (she reported it, but this might be reversed), and I think SecretStar but I'm not sure...
ReplyDeleteI think if people are actually innocent there must be a way to prove it. There was only a small window to trade pets for items especially in huge amounts. I think there is a few people that were missed, in fact I was shocked one person who was just offering 180k yesterday is not suspended. So idk, I helped a friend write a letter into support to ask about certain people that she just couldn't believe they did it. So we are hoping to get some information. I'll let you know what I hear.
make it 2 on my friend list. zoe grace is gone, so is falling skyes
ReplyDeleteA very honest player was on that list. She was one of the ones who reported the Unicorn Room glitch. She wrote in to Support to try and get it reversed and received a reply in which they basically said they weren't interested in talking about it. They knew she was a cheater and they hoped she would come back and "play nice". When I wrote in to Support I was assured that no honest people were punished. But I know what they are looking at with this person, it was a few trades she did before the glitch even came out. And now her account is gone. Fair? I don't think so.
ReplyDeleteone of the missing member on my list was known for selling her puppies born on a certain day. She had quite a few! I have traded with her , she was fair and far from greedy. Thinking of it, yes I am surprised. Trade or puppy sale gone bad? very possible. About the 2nd one I just can't believe it-period.Was foo too hasty ? sounds like it from my side of the screen. Who knows. And now there is a new glitch that was reported, the site scares the pooh out of me....
ReplyDeleteLaurenOrSatan is gone too.
ReplyDeleteAz, We do have to remember that some people aren't who they claim to be. I know she reported it, but that could have been an after thought feeling guilty. We don't know, the only people that do know are the member them self and foo. Anyone not innocent is going to claim innocent. Anyone innocent is going to claim innocent. All we can do is wait and see if any of them are able to prove their innocence and come back. Lets hope that will be the case.
Kay - It's kind of hard to prove your innocence if Foopets won't let you speak. She tried to put a ticket into Support and was basically told they would not discuss it with her, the fact was she was a cheater, she was welcome to reopen a new account and play nicely. She was not allowed to debate her side.
ReplyDeleteShe reported the Unicorn Glitch, not this glitch. This glitch she was unaware of until it had already happened. She had sold multiple pets and received the Fairies as payment prior to the glitch being released. And I do believe that because she gave me some of those fairies towards my dream thread days before the glitch went down. Now Support seems to want to hear none of that. It's frustrating. I realize that some are not who they claim to be, but some I would stake my own reputation on and this player is one of those people.
If you're talking about Kimberly....."Kimberly Irene Griffiths 20k from a LPGSD, 8k which I sent for a LPH, 9k received for a LPH, 40k received for a 90%+ boxer, 30k received for a LPGSD, and lastly over 100k received for a LPGSD which is what MADE me suspicious and report it as I was only supposed to be getting 70k resell for this sale. That shows EVERY SINGLE FAIRY that I got from this glitch" Sorry Kimberly but if I was all of a sudden being offered $40k for a boxer all in fairys...that sure as hell would have made me wonder what was going on. it is common sense...to me that isn't innocent...but that is my opinion...we all know how much it costs in real money to get $20 resell...which is really $40k not that many people without a glitch would have that kind of money...
DeleteDoes Foo seriously think that people who have been banned will *want* to open new accounts and start all over? I get that sense that they do from the forum postings but I'm having a hard time buying into the idea. I also am curious about their wording- they are not actually 'banning people', per se, but closing the accounts that were found with allegedly questionable activities? Am I understanding that correctly? If they were 'banning people' then they wouldn't let them back with old accounts or new ones. Sort of like the difference between getting suspended or expelled at school, yes?
DeleteI don't know why it's important to me to nit pick the language exactly, but I seem to frequently be begging for clarification from Foo (about rules and this..) and help from you guys in understanding it. Oh, Foo, Foo, Foo.... :/
I'm so disappointed and disheartened that Foo isn't willing to hear out your friend, Az., and hear all sides. That is such bad, bad form on their part and so completely NOT the way to set your players at ease and foster good relations.
Also, for Az., you had asked me on Foo where I had seen your offsite comments and I wasn't sure if talking about Foop on there would be a good idea so I just wanted to wave hello and let you know it's me- 007kieran. Hi! ::waves and smiles:: :)
Kay - No, I wasn't referring to Kimi, I was actually talking about Zoe. She traded some of her LS YL's prior to the glitch even being reported or mentioned. And not for any ridiculous sums of money either. Some of the tender was Fairies, but not all of it. Then she used some of that to buy dream pets I think. So all they saw was the use of a lot of Fairies to buy pets.
DeleteCLC - My point exactly. Here, let me take away the black star you spent years earning, all your FDs, your items, rare and otherwise, FGs, and most importantly, every pet you have owned and bonded with over the years. But as a consolation, hey, you can pay us money to start all over from scratch. You may never see your pets or money again, and your reputation will be ruined, but whatever, you still get to play a glitchy game. What? Most people only stay now because of all they have accumulated over the years and their love of their pets and friends. These people will be ostracized by many when Foo is through, so what's the point?
And it is SO disappointing to not be heard. It is like being told, there is absolutely NO way we could have made an error, we don't care about your side of the story, our word is law, go tell it to someone who cares, because we sure as heck don't.
And waving back, I had no idea that was you on here! Big smiles back. Thanks for the reveal and the conversation, both here and there.
I did see on FB that one person said she reported the glitch but they were on pet sales... I had no idea that people were still selling their pets for exuberant amounts. The only way that I would imagine that is by asking for gifts that they can sell back to the mart, then exchanging the private pet link? Blows my mind. I didn't know that was allowed. But then again, I'm clueless about stuff like that. Oh, and when a friend of mine left, she sent me a bunch of her inventory... A bunch were the Unicorn room which I personally don't think is that cute. Oh well...
ReplyDeleteTamytks - Yeah it's called resell. For awhile Rivet tried to put the kabash on it, but the players had the final say. So a player can ask whatever they want for their pet. If someone wants 5,000fds resell for their LPH, you'd toddle off to Foomart and buy 10,000fds worth of items to send to that player. Because of the 50% tax? Anyhow the problem becomes who goes first. The player with the rare pet or the person paying the crazy money. Usually it will go in deference to higher star color, but not always. And obviously that isn't a guarantee you won't get scammed. It's always at your own risk. Which is why I still can't understand why we don't have a safe trade system. I think Chicken Smoothie has a fairly excellent model. A few small improvements with the option to be able to send FDs and FGs and we'd be set. Also a lock to prevent anything being sent before both parties agree. But I don't see it happening anytime soon.
ReplyDeletePeople will sell for those prices as long as people are willing to pay the prices. Personally, as long as it's not 50 grand for an LPH, I generally fail to see the harm. Those crazy prices came with the glitches. But a higher offer for rare pets, if both people feel the price is fair, I think is fine. That's just my opinion on it. Other people feel differently I'm sure. :)
Hope no one minds me posting here btw.
Azkani,
DeleteWhen Pokeys were rare, I was offered 13K for my Spot. He was my hubby's dog before he quit Foo so there was no way I would have sold him. But then again, I would not sell any of my pets, I'm too attached to them :) But I thought that player was out of their mind for offering me 13k. Maybe there should be a cap of some amount? Heck, this too much like Real Life!!!!! Yikes!
Actually I would love to see a price cap. I think they used to have one. 9,999fds wasn't it? I'm not sure how that would work with resell though.
DeleteI know a lot of you are upset because you lost "friends". However, as much as you don't want to believe this.. No one knows what kind of people these members truly are by dealing with them over the internet. I have real life friends that I grew up with that have shocked the crap out of me with some of the things they have done and said. If I hadn't seen it with my own two eyes I would have NEVER believed it.
ReplyDeleteMost of the people who cheated will probably NEVER own up to their hand in it. They do not want to face the embarrassment, humiliation, and member disappointment of being known as a cheater. Who would? It is much better to deny, deny, deny.... That way they can always say that Foopets did them wrong and they did everything right.
I have been on Foopets for a very long time. I have seen members come and go. Some good, some not so much. However, I don't know them aside from my computer screen. I can only go by what they type. People are only human and we all mess up. However, there are VERY few that will own up when they really don't have to. I personally would never go so far out on a limb for an internet friend that I would guarantee they would never do what these members have been suspended for. I personally feel if you think that way you are only kidding yourselves.
Actually, I know someone right now that I have known for years and think a lot of them. However, I found out something about them that really shocked me. I truly never thought that this person would do what they did. I still speak with them and I know that they made this choice for what ever reason. But, it made me wise up to this fact and that is something I won't forget.
What I am trying to say is you never really know a person. Especially an online friendship. It is unwise to think that you know them just because you may talk to them through the computer everyday. Even the people we have RL relationships with can be a stranger to us now and then. This also holds true for our families.
I really do not think that Foopets would shut the door on anyone. If there are people who are innocent it will come out in the end. I think that the people saying these things are angry and looking for ways to get others angry as well. Who actually knows what is truly being said. We are only hearing one side of the story........theirs.
Allen, I agree with what you said. Also, being able to hide behind a computer seems to make some people say and do things that they would not do in RL.
DeleteDan - You make some valid points. How can we ever truly know anyone? Even those closest to us in real life often shock us to our core and we find out they are strangers to us. But I still maintain my faith in my friends.
DeleteAnd a few things about this situation with Foopets bother me. One thing is: Out of 28 people suspended, 11 of them are well known Gurus and Mystics. 2 of them are automatically off the list because they admitted to doing it. So we're left with 9 people which are: Tuxehh, Manic, Zoe, Cherie, Jake, Lane, LaurenOrSatan, Music, and Kimi. 2 of those people, Music and Kimi supposedly reported the glitch. So out of 28 people only 17 are potentially lower than Gurus and Mystics which strikes me as odd. If a glitch like this were to happen, you would think that a lot of the younger players would be participating, but these are mostly adults.
Moving on, these are mainly people that have rare pets and are frequently seen in the Breeding forum trading those pets for large sums of FDs, so it wouldn't be a stretch to believe that they traded a rare pet or 3 or 4 and received Holiday Fairies as payment not knowing they were receiving what was, in essence, stolen property.
So I guess I find it odd that the people I have found missing seem to be adults who are well respected that are known to be traders of rare pets that are not known to be trouble makers or cheaters (that I am aware of)that suddenly for some inexplicable reason all turned rogue at the same time.
This is getting long so I will continue.
Continued...
DeleteThere is also another name which I cannot confirm as I am not sure how he/she? spells it, FallinSkies which I believe is also a Mystic, I heard she was also gone.
Anyhow, I am wondering if someone can shed any light on if there are any blue, red, or green stars out there that have fallen as well. Also from what has been whispered or more like shouted about, there are still quite a few people in possession of tons of Fairies that were not suspended. I am wondering if this is so.
From where I am standing, it looks like Foopets may have gone through inventory and some members seen with a ton of Holiday Fairies, gained, sold, or owned got suspended.
To go back to something you said Dan:
"I really do not think that Foopets would shut the door on anyone. If there are people who are innocent it will come out in the end. I think that the people saying these things are angry and looking for ways to get others angry as well. Who actually knows what is truly being said. We are only hearing one side of the story........theirs."
To answer the first part, as of right now, they are turning everyone away. They are allowing no explanations. I do hope the truth comes out in the end, no matter what the truth may be. For better or worse. I am angry, but I hope that if others are angry it is because they have their own opinions to be angry on behalf of what is going on, not because of anything I have said. I don't want to start a riot, I only want to make sure the truth is heard, no matter what that truth is. And as to your last statement. Not quite. There are two sides to every story. We can get both sides, but we are not able to view both. And just because Foopets tells us they are right doesn't mean they are any more correct than our friends. They are as human as the rest of us and just as prone to mistakes.
The only thing that I would hope to see from Foopets right now is an open mind. For them to reopen the accounts they suspended and not let the people do anything with them but gather evidence so that those 28 people may make an argument for themselves one time. Foopets could hear that argument once *with an open mind* and if they still find no proof, then suspend their accounts. But as of now, they have no defense beyond "I didn't do it" which of course FPs does not want to hear.
Sorry, I went longwinded again lol.
Oh gosh it is 3:30 am, I have no idea where "Dan" came from. My apologies Allen. Geez. Bedtime I guess lol
DeleteWhen thinking on all this Az, we have to remember this glitch didn't last long...not more then 24-36 hours. That said, there is no getting 50+ fairy's over time. They have a purchase limit for one, second if they were to get them from people they would need to send at least $1800 fd's just for one and nobody but a close friend would do that at straight value so we are looking at $1900+ per fairy. These high trades happened very quickly and the amounts shot up in minutes. HUGE red flag for me, I find it hard to believe these people are that stupid. Yes I said stupid, lack of common sense and in my opinion morals that I know you hold as much as I do. They said themselves that they thought it was from a prior glitch. the unicorn room resold for $50, for $100,000 RESELL that would take 4000 unicorn rooms. The unicorn room didn't cause that much of a dent in the fooeconomy. Pets didn't spike up $90k extra, if it effected the economy we would have seen a gradual increase in price from people selling and saving. So either they are stupid, lying or without the morals that I hold dear to me like I know you hold dear to you.
DeleteMusic may have reported it to them, but she said herself not so nicely to Islen "Yeah it seemed rather like a "save face" option. I'd like to know why you didn't do it until after you were made aware that Foo caught on?" You know what that tells me since I know her history of not being honest. That she reported it only because she felt she was going to be caught and tried to do it before foo found out so she wouldn't be in trouble.
Now that is just one of the people, I don't know the backgrounds of all the people. I do however know my personal opinions of some of them and I'm NOT shocked I saw them gone when the 28 people were caught.
Now lets talk lower level stars, they are newbies with not much money. They may have cheated but it surely wasn't with the $900 fairy's. It was probably with a $20 bg, or some such cheap item that wouldn't make a dent or be noticed by foo as easily. Higher stars, normally have more money rarer pets and bigger items...making it VERY easy to be noticed...
We are not only hearing one side of the story, we are actually hearing both. They claim innocent and foo claims cheaters. I would like to believe some of these members are not cheaters, however I don't see why Foo would call members cheaters for nothing. They don't gain anything, in fact they lose.
This isn't the art glitch where everyone who touched anything got suspended and banned. I do think they overlooked some people though.
My post probably won't be popular but I'm not always one to post what everyone wants to hear. I post what I think warts and all.
Respectfully, last I checked, stupidity, lack of common sense, and greed were not grounds for suspension in the RoC or ToS. If people traded pets for the Holiday Fairies but didn't actually push the button that allowed the glitch to happen, didn't actually exploit the glitch, they should get, at the very least, a lesser punishment. Everyone after the Unicorn Room was selling their pets for ridiculous prices. When I saw people offering 50-100k that day, I went down to Support to open a ticket about how the Unicorn Room was still negatively affecting our economy and about how Foopets needed to do something. I didn't even think a new glitch had happened. I saw people trading Fairies, but I assumed the people from the Unicorn Room had used their money to buy the largest possible trade item in the mart. It never crossed my mind that we were dealing with a new and more devastating glitch because the prices had already been outrageous. Then later on FB I saw that the new glitch had happened and I was just frustrated. I knew that back to back glitches would be devastating for a lot of people.
DeleteTheir first mistake was not addressing the first glitch and allowing people to believe it was their fault and that made it okay. But still, cheating is cheating. But even I believed when I saw those prices that day that it was from the old glitch. And people were buying and selling for that amount. I did not, but that is me. I'm glad now that I didn't, but if people saw that their only way to get ahead was to sell their pets for the prices offered by those from what they thought was the Unicorn Room glitch which was accepted in Support by management, I can't blame them.
At the very least, they shouldn't have the punishment that the people who actually used the glitch to replicate the items got. If you traded for the fairies, and you can be accused of stupidity, poor judgement, whatever, fine, but I wouldn't take everything they owned from them because of it.
And I know a few who were trading for normal prices, but they traded a lot of pets and got Fairies in tender for them. I also know one person who was closing their account and moving lots of things back and forth through their accounts. They asked Support if they could transfer their FDs and FGs. When Support said no, they purchased Wall Clocks for the FGs and had some other items for FDs. But among the items were SOME Ravens and Fairies. So because of all the Activity and the items, Wall Clocks included, she got slammed. When she asked Support to review her ticket asking them to transfer her things, they only told her to open a new account. They are refusing to investigate. They are only looking at the surface and no deeper. This happened with the art glitch as well. A few innocents got snared and later got their accounts back, but from what I heard, they still had to start over. Let's hope that doesn't happen again.
I looked for two members yesterday, having the feeling they were among the 28. Their profiles came out as member not found. Looked for another member who I felt was at risk, she also came out as member not found. The first two were known for trading and buying rares, the 3rd one was known as a shelter surfer and lost stats seller. When I saw a post from a < a > stating that some messages will remain public on walls to show parents of young kids that yes reprimands are given I wondered what was the next step. Not writing next step in a bad way by the way. There was a thread in suggestion about the < now what?...> regarding glitches and those taking advantage of them. Plenty enough of posts ,plenty enough of members wondering why nothing had been done. It was placing the new owner between a spot and an hard rock, darn if you do darn if you don't. While I'm wondering what the pooh some of the people I knew were doing in this mess I do not blame the owners for taking action , I am not sentencing the friends I have on Foo either as I think some suspended members were cut in the middle of a bad deal. I am not a prolific poster on Foo, most members would not give me 5 mn of their time , let 's not talk friend list ...:),I don't trade ,don't breed on a regular basis ....but if I were to receive 300 + of a high price item I'd know right away something is wrong. I think Foo should take a look at the sale actions, also if sellers and buyers were befriended or connected to the same people. But that's my opinion and opinion only. Am I upset because I lost friends? No, I'm an adult and have stop waiting for Santa a long time ago. I am however willing to give the benefit of the doubt to people I interact with on Foo. Stupid mistakes are made everyday all over the world, still there are mistakes that aren't mistakes . I would not want to be in the Foo owner shoes, they made the choice to set an example which by the way took guts since the site is pay to play. I play another game, there is a safe trading system, it avoids drama and suspicion. Meanwhile I won't buy anything but food for a while, it's safer that way.
DeleteAnd yet the player with 533 fairies is considered by foo to have acquired them honestly and fairly.
ReplyDeleteYes and I was there when that player told how they got those fairies. She was offering over 100k for an Oddie and someone stopped to ask her where that came from. She showed part of her ledger which showed Holiday Fairies out the wazoo from...one of the now suspended members. So apparently, it is okay that she got 120k in Holiday Fairies from a member that supposedly participated in this glitch, but it is not okay that some of these other members got money the exact same way.
DeleteBtw, she got the money by trading one of her Oddies for 120k in Holiday Fairies. And she thought nothing of it. She didn't report it. She went to use it the next day to get another Oddie for herself.
Which is the same exact thing two other members did with this now suspended member. They traded their rare pets with her for outrageous prices and took Holiday Fairies as payment. And now they are suspended with her. Yet this one member with 120k is still rambling about with a ton of money. Seem a bit unjust to you? It seems highly unfair to me. If you're going to punish one person for trading with someone, you may want to punish them all. And Support has been alerted of this person.
I believe they have been banned as well. I know there have been more actions taken.
DeleteDidn't someone ...I think on facebook, mention that the glitch has been around since last fall?
ReplyDelete(good grief...i had no idea how involved this whole thing was)
ReplyDeleteKaylina, thank you for providing hard info, it's appreciated and i hope it continues. thanks as well to others who have specific details on what is going on.
i (would like to) think that after the initial furor has died down Support will be more open to discussing individual cases that may have extenuating circumstances - the main problem being that without access by BOTH parties (member and management) to ledgers and records, it will be hard to make a clear case.
i can't help but think that a sound 2-way trading system, like that on MagiStream and other sites, would have headed a lot of this off...it would supplant Gifting, for one thing, removing the possibility of abuse, and would not only protect both parties in a trade but provide clear, connected, timestamped records of all member transactions. it seems to me that the 50% bite on items-for-tender and the loss of direct member-to-member sales and the consequent necessity to trade via gifting are the main factors that created the potential for this happening.
(few more quick notes - still trying to read through everything)
ReplyDeletehigh-level members may be more affected because more of them have the experience onsite - and the contacts - to enable them to better exploit a given opportunity.
from what i heard, what is being used here is an indefinite suspension rather than a banning, which is reviewable if you try hard and long enough to do so - and here i speak from experience, lol.
also...the Foop is no longer a boogieman onsite, we are now speaking to and hearing back from management - apparently this group is not quite as insecure as the Rivet regime. i can't foresee any negative repercussions from mentioning us onsite any more, just don't post an active link.
Well, the thread about the glitch has been locked. Good grief. I posted a question on it but only 1 person had time to respond before the thread got shut down. I hope you guys will indulge me if I ask it here in hopes of enlightenment....
ReplyDeletehere's what I wrote:
"I have a question- I want to see if I understand what is happening correctly… the people who were banned- no notice was given to them ahead of time that the ban was about to happen, correct? People had no way to see it coming? How can people get screen shots or get any way to access their accounts to prove their innocence if they are banned (and cannot log into their accounts)? I, in no way, mean to instigate anything or rile folks up, I’m just curious how the process of proving one’s innocence works. Thanks for any insight y’all can offer. :)"
I dunno what to think. I kind of wish I hadn't made such great friends on Foo or gotten so attached to our pets. Both things make contemplation of leaving far more difficult and we've only been members 7 months. I can only begin to imagine how hard this must be for people who have invested so much time and love over the span of years. My heart sure goes out to the innocent folks in all this muck.
I wanted to answer you so badly on Foo but have been advised against posting negatively...so I will answer you with what I know from some of my friends here.
DeleteThey can't get evidence. They can't access anything. As for proving their innocence, unless they thought to gather evidence prior to this suspension, (and if you're innocent why would you?), they have nothing to show. They have been given license to tell their story, they are being asked if they can present evidence, and when they can present none, are being told to make a new account and play fairly. If anyone is interested, I will try and gather SS's of these responses sans names of the accused, but I have no idea where I can post them.
You won't see me posting my opinion about it anywhere on Foo anymore though I can tell you that for sure. While I'm sure some of you will guess who I am relevant to my posts, I will no longer be leaving my name. Color me anonymous.
if people wish - and it looks like it may indeed be needed - i can set up a satellite blog devoted to this problem : people can post whatever they have in the way of hard information and/or screenshots (the Comments take live links, i believe, i'll test it) and if anyone has a way to get word to those directly affected, they are urged to participate as well.
Deleteone of the reasons the site took action this time was the negative response to their NOT taking action last time...and the fact that indefinite suspensions rather than banning was employed suggests that they are open to resolution of unfair actions. it won't be fast, and it won't be easy...it took me over 40 days to work through and resolve an IS leveied on Canaan and FooBA4U. while this was under the "old" regime, it still gives an idea of the time these matters can take. if those slammed unfairly in the MartArt scandal were able to resolve the problem - under Rivet - this can be dealt with also.
as far as disputing conclusions drawn by the site based on ledger/gifting/etc info, even though the members can't access their pages, the site can - and should be willing to present in the Support dialog the relevant excerpts so that given items can be discussed - which would let the memebers offer the requested evidence.
all right, HERE is the tasked blog space dedicated to the gifting glitch fallout. it's also flagged in the main post, above.
ReplyDeleteThanks Rush. I will be gathering what evidence I can over the next few days and either post it in bulk or as it comes to me. As I have time to do so. Thanks also for the instructions. ;) Hopefully at least here it can be seen where we all still have a voice. Although I do have to see which members still plan to stay as I am not sure if they will want to show their SS's even without their names. I will be letting them know where it will appear and why. I will post here as I get in touch with the members.
ReplyDeleteThanks for giving space on your blog for the truth.
without knowing whose it is, the information in a screeenshot ought not to cause any problems, but everyone has to determine their own comfort level...i really hope we can accomplish something to make this more equable for all concerned.
ReplyDeleteI am sending out messages now. It is harder with some as it would be so much easier to try and get them through Foo, but obviously, some I cannot reach that way. So some it has to be by word of mouth and some don't seem to be online at the moment. But I know a lot probably would like to see their cases out in the open. At least, this is my hope. I know some still have accounts and are still fighting this, so I hope their fear does not keep them from being able to show the truth to all. I think I may be able to edit out enough to where the general truth is still seen, but it keeps the anonymity of each. I will have to get each SS and ask each person how comfortable they are with it I guess. I can tell you though, it was frustrating to hear one thing from Support and quite another from the players. So I guess we'll see as the SS's emerge. If I can get them, I will be adding my own as well.
Deletethe first thing to do is drag everything out into the open as much as possible, who did what, who said what, and so on...it would be so much easier if they hadn't tanked pagecacheing - though you can still get at photos.
ReplyDeleteas the "sentence" meted out was indefinite suspension, as they used on Canaan and FooBA4U during the Beta/KittenSave battle, they ALL still have accounts, it's more whether they are willing to go to the mat fighting for them. i defer to your judgement here, but if these people have a case, i'm not sure what it is they're gunshy about having seen.
They are all fighting for their accounts, problem is that their evidence has been destroyed, yet they are being asked for it. No evidence, no chance to fight or be heard on the matter of getting that account back. Catch 22?
DeleteBasically, no evidence, you must start anew. And who will pay to do that? I wouldn't. Especially when you have taken the pets I love from me.
I would say some would be gunshy because some may still believe they have a chance at getting their pets back no matter how many times they hear the word no. They are probably in a state of shock. So if their Support SS's are shown here and are seen by the wrong people, they may feel they will have less of a chance or will be turned down outright or lose ground that they may have gained or trust they feel they have with those they are currently having an "open" [much sarcasm there] dialogue with.
Sorry, I am still in great shock myself over all of this. And it is harder than Hades to track these people down without benefit of Foo. I have a couple of emails, a couple of Facebook names, but I believe they are interconnected which will hopefully help. Got in touch with one and am discussing it with her presently. Thought it would be a faster process. Sorry.
the evidence is there - i would suggest that they ask Support to access and put up on their file thread the item(s) they want to discuss. also bear in mind that at the moment they are also being bombarded by those who DID err deliberately and are probably saying the same thing to everyone. tell them to be patient, and persistent...it CAN be done - i did it, under worse conditions. if you google people's Foo names, along with the Foto caches you often get their Facebook or other means to reach them.
Deleteyes, i believe that publishing Support info is verboten - at least it was. what you might do is copy and paste quotes rather than specific SS's, as this would be less targetable. if i can get enough hard data on things i may be able to talk to management on their behalf. getting hold of the people is most important - if they can lay out here what they feel happened, i will have a place to start.
That is a great idea, I just didn't want to put anything that could later be seen as taken out of context by management, however, I have seen some of these SS's. It does seem that they are telling them the same things over and over. Which is, you're a cheater, make a new account, play fair. They don't seem to want to hear their side and don't seem to be interested in evidence.
DeleteI posted this earlier, but for me it is not showing up, on the, I guess? Good news front, a member, it would appear, is receiving her account back. If that's what you call it. She, well I don't know if she is happy. I haven't gotten a chance to speak with her directly. But from what I hear, she will be a foobie after suspension, with no gifting or breeding privileges...ever. So she gets her pets back. To do nothing else with but play. What's the point? I wonder if she will be allowed forum access. I would guess so, since she can't do any harm there. I also wonder if she is allowed to purchase from Foomart. It's sad really.
I just checked, I don't see any rules in the RoC or the ToS that says that posting or sharing Support messages is forbidden. But I have heard that it is too.
DeleteKinda weird though. I mean you'd think if it was a major rule that could get you suspended that it would be somewhere. Unless I am just missing it. I think I remember someone getting in trouble for sharing them back when Rivet was in term but I just don't see the rule.
NowyoucancallmeAnon I saw that member's second profile late last night, where she said that she would be losing her BB also, and that she was getting the account for a short while, to sell everything in her inventory and give foo the money, whereupon it would suffer a 2-week suspension... "but I get to keep my pets and account". I wonder if she will be able to move her pets over to her second account, where she would surely be able to buy mart items, and play with them normally there?
DeleteOf course cheating is bad, and foo presumably believes totally that she did cheat in that way. I could wish that the Foo staff had an appeal process which allowed people access to their own ledgers etc in order to make their own case. It may be that the staff "reads" it one way, assuming guilt at the start, whereas a player could present the solid facts from a different viewpoint. Ledgers and gifts cannot be tampered with, so it would not hurt for Foo to allow that.
Anyway, to me the "sentence" does seem a little harsh, although I am glad that she gets her pets back. After all, the focus of the game IS the pets.
azkani-karmapolice, no I do not see such a rule anywhere either. I have seen people reprimanded (and threatened) for sharing Support messages, but that was back in the days when FooKate went doolally. I guess it's one of those things that is nicely covered by the draconian (and very Rivet) article 17
"17. FooPets shall determine, in its sole discretion, whether these Rules of Conduct have been broken and may take any action it deems appropriate when facing any issue in question."
And this is another nice catch-all which does not threaten suspension but does allow foo to do what it likes with any postings on the site message boards
"We reserve the right to remove any content without notice and for any reason."
In fact all of the recent events are covered by those two points I suppose.
mmm...returning the ill-gotten gains, losing status, but being able to keep her pets and/or move them to another account and have a fresh start doesn't sound like a bad Solomonic to me, especially if we are looking at someone who genuinely exploited the glitch...and this is sooner than i expected them to be willing to work out compromises.
Deleteagain, remember, management has been repeatedly taken to the cleaners by members at this point - which under the circumstances was kind of a kick in the teeth - is STILL woefully shorthanded, and may take a while to cool down enough to listen and work with people. no doubt ALL affected, whatever their degree of culpability, is bombarding Support at the moment - matter of fact, the most noise is probably being made by the most guilty, as usual.
affected members who feel they have a case : be patient, speak softly, use reason, and request the screenshot information you want to go over with Support to be obtained BY THEM and posted to your Support thread for review. message me, here or personally (info top right), and let me know if you need a referee, i can email them and help present your case - we can go over your position off the site where there is no culpability for looking at SSs.
i am clinging to the belief that once hurt feelings (on management's side) have settled a bit they will be amanable to leveling things out.
NOTE: at one time it was VERY clearly spelled out that publicly posting Support or any other private site communications was verboten - if it no longer appears, then the wording HAS been altered to some extent (in my infamous spare time, i will have to compare the present version to my screenshots of the ones immediately pre-Rivet and Rivet) - however, the keyword here is "public". you were free to TAKE SSs, and to share them privately, just not publish.
DeleteYes, looked at objectively it is a fair compromise -- and is one that would suit me purrfectly if I were caught up in it, since it is the pets that matter to me.
DeleteI think that the problem arises when the friends of the person in question are up in arms concerning his or her innocence; at that point the eggshells would have sharp edges for those who try to tread carefully. I hasten to add that I have no idea whether the player in question above is innocent or not; I do not really know her. If she is innocent, the penalty seems a little harsh; if she is guilty then the PTB are being fair.
Yes, the key points when dealing with Support are: Be courteous, regardless of how furious you may be. Take care not to say anything against them on the forums or on any profile page. It is anti-productive to whip up fury amongst your friends; all that happens if they go on the war-path is that they irritate the PTB who are trying to sort out the mess.
And that is a good idea, Gold Rush, for those who did not get Screenshots before the lock-out to get the PTB to make some so that they can discuss the specifics.
I agree with you that Support are showing a willingness to work out compromises much earlier than expected.
Spare time... What's that? LOL!
Okay, so here's the problem. Rush - I have some SS's I would like to share. I can really only share the one side right now, Support's, as if I share the other, it would be immediately apparent to management if they read this whose ticket I am showing. If I post them like that, and out of order, just to show that the same answers are being given over and over, does that even help give a clear picture at all? Because really, they can argue it's out of context. I see the full set of SS's, and it's beyond outrageous. I wish I could post them, it's driving me a little nuts not to. If I could, I could show everyone the picture that is emerging for me. But to do so would threaten any slim chance these people still have of getting their accounts back, even if it's just to see their pets again.
DeleteAlso, if the problem is posting the Support tickets publicly, wouldn't this be considered public? I know it must seem as though I am dragging my feet here, and I am sorry, I do not mean to. I only want to be sure these people are fully protected before I post something that may take away their last opportunity to have their accounts back. Or to open new ones. I don't want them to be outright banned. I may be able to mix up the replies from Support in such a way as to make it unrecognizable where they came from. Again though, I don't want to be accused of spreading things out of context. Merely to show you how many times the same answer is given and how that answer is put forth.
Thank you for you patience Rush, it is so appreciated, and I know that this has been a sanctuary and a blessing when Foo used to feel the same.
Carrie - Wise words those about being courteous and cautious no matter how furious. I know there were a few that went to Support begging with no malice, a few with evidence, or what they felt was evidence, that were ignored or turned away. These people still have accounts, so I don't believe I will be asking them to post their SS's here.
Also after further looking into it, I believe I may have been wrong about the one I thought was getting her account back. It is unclear at this time. I don't want to start rumors without proper evidence that I can't confirm.
(saw below in re posting - no, i never remove posts no matter what they say, and i would hardly remove anyting of yours, it is either one of the things Carrie mantions or possibly that they are higher in the thread as accidental "replies" to another Comment or otherwise placed where you do not expect them (which happens to me distressingly often)
Deletemy suggestions would be to either copy/paste excerpts to make them less identifiable - though that to an extent defeats the purpose - or to email the full text to me (address top right) in proper order and put paraphrases here - we trust your judgement and veracity.
by the way, i was just futzing around...and i can't be certain, but it looks like their pets are friend-accessible via m.foo - google their username and pick the pets out of the Fotos, then change link code from www.foo/pet to m.foo/play. anyone, let me know if it works?
ReplyDeleteSunday night, 6:30 central time and we are down at Foo. Mad kitty here, mad kitty there, mad kitty (almost) everywhere! ugh. The Mart is down, people's profiles are down, forums are acting hinkey (at least as far as I can see...) and I can't find anything akin to an announcement or notice in the forums or on Twitter saying that we'll be down for maintenance or anything tonight. double ugh.
ReplyDeleteTo NowyoucancallmeAnon, I understand you completely, my friend, and I saw the note sent to you saying 'hey, clam up' just before the thread about the glitch got locked. Seeing the thread get locked miffed me pretty badly but seeing that note to you about made my blood boil! I am so glad that we can come here and talk openly (even if it is better to be anonymous sometimes..). And I hope beyond hope that the people who have been wrongly condemned feel like they can come here and be heard. What a state of affairs. ::sighs heavily and shakes head::
Edit to add- they just posted on Twitter- "Hi everyone, we are aware of the server issues. Thank you for your patience while we look into it!"
DeleteUgh...I tried to reply up there ^ but it won't let me. Thank you for your understanding CLC. I believe that reply was to a few people on the thread perhaps, I don't know. All I know is that I personally no longer feel safe to voice my opinions on Foopets. I see that some still do, and I hope they will continue to be able to do so. I cheer them on silently. Hopefully they won't draw the wrong attention by saying the wrong thing. Because I don't want to see opinions die.
DeleteAnd I do hope they get this Madkitty business sorted soon.
Gold Rush, yes the pets of suspended or banned members can always be played with by any friend who has the links. And widget works too.
DeleteSo now there is another glitch, a breeding one...?
I know a while back -- just before Christmas maybe? -- some people managed to start off breedings of some Pokeys, and the breedings were terminated. But this one I gather has to do with one male able to breed with multiple females.
talk about realism...(ROFL)...if it takes separate LLs for each, not sure why they care - i'd be more after the glitch litter breeders getting 12, 18, or more youngsters a pop.
DeleteNowyoucancallmeAnon, I just wanted to say how wonderful I think it is that you are working so hard to see (and help us all see..) this situation as clearly as possible. You defending and helping your friends is one of the most lovely and kind acts I have seen in a long while. I understand your hesitation in not wanting to post the SS's and I think it's so admirable that you are thinking through each move so carefully with an eye to the result it could create. I am proud to call you my friend. You're doing great!! ::claps appreciatively!:: :)
ReplyDeleteAm I just extremely horribly awfully terrible with computers or do my posts really keep disappearing into thin air? I posted on below the above ^ from CLC earlier and for me, I can't see it. Can anyone else? Second time on this particular post, so I am curious as to what might make it happen. At first I thought maybe I forgot to hit Publish, but this time it was there, I hit refresh and it was gone, so I am lost. Is it only hiding from me? Anyhow sorry people, last minute I had a new addition come in with a TON of SS's. Most of them were extremely specific though so I am trying to figure out what can be used and what cannot. Hoping this post stays.
ReplyDeleteThat happened to me once, NowyoucancallmeAnon; I was sure that I had posted and yet my message did not appear next time I looked. I think that the problem with this blog style of posting is that you have to be sure that you have entered the "reply as" details properly, then you have to click sometimes twice to make sure it is "published", and then it's best to refresh the page in order to make absolutely sure. Since I started doing it that way, I have not lost anything. Also, I type into Notepad so that if the message goes poof I can re-enter and get it "published" correctly. Not that my "words of wisdom" are necessarily worth all that effort LOL but anyway that's what I have found.
DeleteOne thing you can be absolutely sure of is that Gold Rush does not ever delete posts, so it is all our own ineptness ((hugs))
Ha! I am so good at inept Carrie. I do that very well. I will have to do the Notepad thing next time. Thanks. ((hugs)) :)
Deletewhile knowing what Support is saying - and not saying - at this point is useful in one way, what is needed more if we are going to be able to do any good is to have the individual cases (with or without names)laid out from the members' point of view : what promped their account to be targeted, in their estimation (and Support's if it has been stated), and why they feel they are not culpable or not fully culpable in the matter. the case(s) can then be analysed, their merits examined, and a plan to present them to Support in an effective manner devised and executed.
ReplyDeleteI am actually encouraging them to do so. I have a woefully inadequate montage SS to show you. It's sad really because I have over 50 at least. And if any of these people ever truly give up and give the green light, I will likely post them all from both sides so that you guys can see what I see, but for now, that paints a big target on their backs that none of them can afford to have. So after looking, I only have about 9 to show. Their quality and sizes were different, so finding a happy medium and size for all to read without pounding heads and squinty eyes was hard. And I still may have to translate one or two words.
DeleteI can also give you a play by play of what is going on behind the scenes, but what I am actually encouraging is for these members to come here and share their experiences, sans the identifying details that would put them at high risk, under names they feel comfortable with. So far I've only got approval for the finished product from a couple of people and I have to wait for all of them before I post. I am hoping they aren't too shy to come here and share their feelings at the very least. It would provide a far better picture than my SS's or my words ever could. What I have seen over the past few days from these tickets is tragic. If they choose not to explain it, I may later on. But I'd much rather you hear it from more people than just myself.
Sigh. I had this whole post typed out when my internet went down. So basically I have decided to wait 2 weeks to show any screen shots. I know, boo hiss. Sorry. I only had 9 I could show without revealing identities and possibly endangering accounts that are left or any chance still left for talks between Support and those that lost their accounts.
ReplyDeleteAlso I fear that if I post what little I have and it IS seen by the wrong people and they ARE considering investigating further it may anger them and make them less apt to do so. So I figure 2 weeks give Support a chance to figure out what they're doing and also the people involved a chance to get their say in. If in 2 weeks people have fought the good fight and get nowhere or give up, then I expect they'll probably be cool with posting the entire side of Support and possibly the entire Ticket itself. Though I don't know as some have already been judged.
Anyhow sorry to jump the gun. I'd like to give all sides the chance to come to an agreement and I just feel like I don't have enough to show with them still trying to do that. So I hope in 2 weeks if they decide to come all out with it, this will still be an option Rush and in the meantime, I apologize for wasting your time right now.
::sigh::... this was posted by Foo on Facebook today..
ReplyDelete"FooPets
Details on the glitch that everyone is buzzing about: It is not calculating purchases in the ledger correctly. Please do not buy lots of the same item and take advantage of this on purpose by clicking buy on the same item over and over again. Thanks to all who let us know, we appreciate your help in rebuilding FooPets and thank you for your patience and fair playing so we can get this fixed!"
I'm starting to agree with the people who are scared to buy, scared to trade, scared to breed and scared to post in the forums... it's a rather spooky world sometimes..
a glitch here. a glitch there. everywhere a glitch glitch glitch...
ReplyDeleteeven glitches for the glitches.
I for one am glad they are finally telling us the truth instead of pretending everything is hunky dory while predators and cheaters steal newbies and gullible players blind. There are always glitches - always - in every game. And forewarned is forearmed. Come on people. Are you seriously complaining because you can't cheat now? Or that you can make an informed decision about whether something is wrong? Or if you should take the word of another players and risk your account and pets or items? Have you been drinking the Kool-Aid of "just shut up and don't ask questions" for so long you can't deal with honest updates and warnings? Can't you make decisions for yourself? Or is it easier to be in the dark and then have someone else to blame when you or your friends get caught? I call that lazy and irresponsible.
ReplyDeletePlease. You have no idea what years of neglect and "head in the sand" attitudes can do to code this complicated. I am amused with the realization that it seems many people cannot handle success or truth. They have to complain - even when they are being treated with respect and openness. How very very sad.
just because i don't like glitches doesn't mean i approve of cheating. you can take that assertion and shove it where the sun don't shine!
Deletei don't think anyone is saying they LIKE glitches, or that NOT liking them means that they plan to take advantage of them...and yes, because Foo's code has been rewritten, overwritten, ands frankensteined for so long ANY fixes input are likely to affect other things in unpredictable ways.
Deletethis is going to be a problem for quite a while, and all they can really do is post glitches as soon as they are noticed, hope that players are willing to cooperate, and pray that fixing the glitch doesn't create ANOTHER problem. short of pulling the site offline for an indefinite period - which i don't think ANYONE wants - there's nopthing else they CAN do...
I don't think people are complaining about the updates. I for one am complaining that I pay for a game that doesn't work. Who's fault are the glitches? Foopets, not the players. The players are all paying money for something that is broken. So broken there is no way two full time and two after hours people can fix it. I hate that players are taking advantage of a messed up game, but only Foo can take the blame for that. If they really wanted to fix it they would get moving on with some serious overhauling, not just part time band-aids.
ReplyDeleteWhatever. If you want to look at it that way fine. The point is they are doing something. And nothing was done for at least 2 years. So it takes time to unravel threads of convoluted code. It is easier to have fewer people involved and ones who know the original code. And to keep the site open triples or quadruples the time. So lets face it. These people are screwed no matter what they do.
DeleteWhatever it is there are complainers who want "their" stuff back. Well we have our Foos back. And we have some dedicated people busting their hump to get a clean code so we can have more. And all I hear are wah wah wah. It is not fast enough. No miracles. I paid. Me. I.
I remember not to long ago when I wished I could feed my Foos and my friends Foos and decorate and visit with my friends. And now I can.
So I will repeat the last sentence in the post you replied to "They have to complain". It does not matter what it is. And you proved the point.
if this is what you think maybe it would be better if foo just shutdown the website and turn out the lights because the money isn't worth what we're getting now!
Deleteplease, please PLEASE use "name/URL" for your Reply As rather than Anon...it just takes a second and as far as i'm concerned the URL you use can be anything at all - even mine - it just lets you use a name (ANY name)...okay? thanks!
DeleteWhat annoys me to no end, is the fact that such information and updates are posted to FB or Twitter, while they should be posted on the site/forums for everyone to know. Not everyone has FB, not everyone has Twitter, but everyone does has a FP account ( assuming they are an active member ). I know there is a built-in system that let's admins send messages to everyone...kind of the same way FD daily allowance notice pops up. And it has been used for forwarding messages before. This situation is ridiculous. Why would I have to check FB and Twitter before I check FP itself?
ReplyDeleteFYI "It is in the Announcement Forum. It was not made a sticky, but it is there. And there were threads about it on the Breeding Forum." (In reference to the latest glitch) From the Facebook thread.
DeleteYeah. And I'd have to dig for the information myself...in order to know what's going on. Because if I don't...I'm screwed!
DeleteCome on, people, let's not fight on poor Gold Rush's blog. The sweet soul has given us this wonderful place on which to get information and to feel free and safe. Every sudden rush of Anonymouses apparently heralds a fight, one which she has trouble following, and she does not deserve that.
ReplyDeleteFoopets is now keeping people updated and not putting sugar on the pill. Thank goodness for that. In Rivet days the Admin messages used to make my teeth ache.
Foopets has a dire mess of code and these few people are trying to un-tangle it whilst keeping the game online. This makes people both happy and unhappy -- happy because they can still play with their pets, and unhappy because the site for which they are paying is glitchy beyond belief.
In amongst the mess, there are people who will spot any opportunity to cheat and "win" over someone else. In an offline game such as the Sims or the old Petz I might "cheat", but that is simply so that I can play in a different way from other players, and it affects nobody else. It is nothing to do with others if I want to have all the toys available to my pets, and if I want to play "properly" sometime, I can do so by re-setting the registry. In an online game, one player's cheats affects every other player, whether in a miniscule or a massive way. The recent cheats on Foo affected other players enormously, especially any innocents who got caught up in them by accident (if that is possible). Foopets has shown us what happens to those who cheat. They have also done us the courtesy of telling us in advance of any cheats that they discover, so that we know we are doing wrong if we exploit them. I agree though that so many are popping up that it is difficult to be sure now of anything on foo other than tending to pets, and for those who like to trade etc it makes life uncomfortable.
Players and Foopets have two choices really.
First, players can carry on as we are, paying and playing (complete with site slow-downs etc), trusting to Dr.ron and his merry crew to repair the site and give us a smooth, mostly-glitch-free experience as time goes on. The Foopets crew can carry on trying to fix things whilst keeping us informed and raising the alarm about any possible cheats so that we all know that they are NOT intended.
Second, Dr.Ron could decide to temporarily close the site, giving suitable warnings of intent and expected length of down-time, and players could make sure that we have screenshots of where we are right now as regards BBs, funds, length of paid-for time due etc, and then wait while his crew untangles the spaghetti.
Either choice is fine by me. But fighting and jeering amongst ourselves is not going to achieve anything except misery.
Carrie, I respect your opinion and agree with your call not to fight here. I admit my hair lit on fire last night when I read the response to my update above. I do not take being called a cheater lightly. I composed a reply message last night and instead of hitting send I just saved it until I was sporting a cooler head (hair and all..). Today, your post convinces me that I'll just delete my response penned last night in anger and not give the offending poster the benefit of my attention and I ask others to do likewise as much as they can. Trolls just are what they are.
Delete((hugs)) CLC1905, I totally understand that feeling, I have done the same in the past. I am quite sure that nobody really believes that you are a cheater.
DeleteAs for me, I am glad that all I am interested in is feeding my pets, but even there as this latest glitch is a multi-buy problem, I was a little worried about my usual stocking-up on food for the week. What I do is, I go to the food in the Mart and I hit the buy button and Enter over and over to get the biggest bags of food for the 700 foogems, for cats and then for dogs, then I don't have to worry about the food all week while I feed my mountain of frozen friends' pets. I was glad to see that it registered in my ledger, but previous to today it had never even occurred to me to look at the ledger at such a time.
So those who are distressed over these glitches, and worried about what will happen to them if they put a foot wrong, have a valid point.
i don't think they are concerned with consumables, as they cannot be resold and are purchased in quantity on a regular basis by many, myself included, but with heading off a repeat of the gifting glitch mess.
Deleteso far (to me, anyway), all of the exploitable glitches were pretty obviously NOT normal site functioning and something that people should have questioned rather then going "oh, goody!" over. as far as the most recent, even those who didn't see an announcement somewhere ought to notice if they bought hundreds of FDs' worth of stuff and weren't billed for it...and pass on to management instead of going back for more.